Jordan: And on that note, the second topic I'd like to discuss is the shift of Xenosaga 1 & 2 to the NDS
Jordan: Not so much the games themselves
Jordan: but more the fact that they are going from a 3d style to a 2d style in a port
Stephanie: I'm trying to figure out if the Xenosaga port will be either a hit or a miss. I mean, the screens I've seen so far make it look like its going to work.
Jordan: Nothing like this has happened before
Jerry: No voice = Albedo not creepy.
Stephanie: But, its coming from the PS2.
Thomas: 2D Xenosaga...I may actually give it a chance now.
Jerry: That's reason enough for me to worry.
Thomas: Huh...see, I thought that the story was the most compelling aspect of the game, but the emphasis on the graphics just turned me off.
Stephanie: I think the shift would constitute me buying a DS when I can afford it.
Thomas: Of course, I was one of those weird people who thought that the best part of Xenogears was the 2nd disc of nothing but (practically) text.
Stephanie: I have converted, I admit.
T.J.: I believe that the 2D aspect isn't going to die.
Jerry: Best as a story, not as a game.
Thomas: I hope not.
Jerry: 2D is good
T.J.: As anyone at NIS can tell you.
Jordan: So, what other games could a similar treatment happen to?
Thomas: Give me a Princess Crown or a Guardian Heroes over a Jak and Daxter any day.
Jerry: But I'm not so sure it'll be a magic potion for Xenosaga.
Jordan: Should any other games get this treatment?
Stephanie: Uh, hmm.. Atelier Iris, perhaps ^_^
Thomas: Suikoden III? And one perspective, only, please? ;)
T.J.: I'd like to see a Star Ocean 3 that looks more like Star Ocean 2.
Rebecca: There should be an FFTactics DS...
Michael: Can't think of any myself. I must admit I'm rather biased to 3-d.
Thomas: We'll build "The World" just for you, Nerdboy. ;)
Stephanie: That would be a good idea, if I liked TRPGs..
Michael: Especially RPG wise.
Michael: I think it lends itself better to conveying emotion.
T.J.: Admittedly, TRPGs fit the 2d aesthetic rather well.
Stephanie: I can enjoy a 2-D here and there.
Jordan: I'd like to see Disgaea on the DS
Thomas: 3D is good if you have a master at the helm, but you can easily lose a LOT of expression if you're just doing it for the sake of throwing on polygons.
T.J.: You can milk -so- much emotion out of a sprite. Just look at the original FFTactics. That blew my mind.
Thomas: Take Suikoden II...WONDERFUL sprite animations, and then 3 has the most blocky and stiff movements in video game...
Thomas: ...it was painful to watch,.
Stephanie: Yeah, 2-D graphic games are finding great ways to add emotion into the equation.
Jerry: "I have no nose" You call that emotion?
Thomas: That character design did indeed blow.
Stephanie: You can draw a nose on in 2D!
Rebecca: let's face it, someone who is a master at 3D can convey emotion in 3d better than a Master in 2d can in 2d
Stephanie: But 2D can still be refreshing.
Jordan: What about other games? Could we do FF10 on the DS?
Jordan: or what about ff7?
Stephanie: That one... no.
Jerry: But then, how many 3D masters are there? How many 2D?
Stephanie: FF7 Maybe.
Jordan: Why couldn't we?
Thomas: Perhaps...but there is one aspect that you overlook: in 2D, much of the emotion can be invested directly in how you interpret the animations, as opposed to be TOLD how it is happening in 3D
Jordan: they're doing XS on the DS
Thomas: Delusional? Perhaps.
Michael: FFX used its graphics very effectively.
T.J.: A sprite version of FF7? I could entertain that. And, for that matter, FF9.
Stephanie: I can't see FFX being anything but a PS2 game.
Rebecca: but it'd have to be ultra good 2d sprites, ala phantasy star or chrono trigger
Stephanie: The graphics were what made the game for me.
T.J.: I agree with that. X and X-2 are too graphically-intensive to fit on the DS.
Stephanie: Yeah. Much agreed, Nerdboy.
Rebecca: I still think chrono trigger had better looking graphics than ff7 :P but ff7 was hardly the tops in 3d.
Jordan: yeah, but I thought the same thing about XS
T.J.: FF7 was the first shot at 3d. Of course it wasn't going to be the end-all-be-all.
Thomas: I am sort of an emotive gamer, though...2D or 3D...when something has been established, I have a hard time making the jump...Kingdom Hearts was one exception, though.
Michael: I really couldn't imagine seeing Tidus pounding his fists on the ground in frustration conveyed effectively in 2-d.
T.J.: It's just the begin-all-be-all. ^^
Stephanie: FF7 was great at the time, graphic wise.
Jerry: FF7 was pre-rendered with gouraud-shaded 3D "sprites"
Jerry: Not really that stunning to me.
Thomas: Agreed, Slayer: we already have precedent. 2D would be pointless at this juncture.
Jerry: (not counting the battle sequences)
T.J.: For that matter, I'd love to see the Paper Mario games compiled for the DS. But they could probably just port those. ^^
Jerry: Yeah, I imagine so.
Thomas: The thing is, they are both valid forms of expression, provided the developer knows what they are doing...
Michael: I'll agree with that.
Stephanie: Wow, we can agree on something ^_^
Michael: Several 2-d games have gotten to me.
Michael: Chrono Trigger and Illusion of Gaia being examples.
Stephanie: If a 2D is done right, I can find it more enjoyable than a 3D.
Thomas: Granstream Saga, Suikoden III and IV, Summoner, Evergrace, etc etc...all prime examples of how NOT to do 3D RPGs
Stephanie: Legaia would have been better if they took a little more time on it.
T.J.: Also, they didn't redub the voices, which was very interesting.
Michael: And money grind.
Thomas: The characters in Legaia were about as wooden as a Mokujin
Jordan: So, getting back on the topic, could Legaia make the shift to the DS?
Stephanie: I'd like to see it do that, if they redesigned aspects of it.
T.J.: I think the graphical change would do it well. With a few gameplay tweaks, I think the very unique battle system would translate well.
Thomas: Legaia is better of buried...it's sequel will go down in history as the Beyond the Beyond of the PS2 era.
Jordan: It would take a lot of innovation to do it, and that's what's happening in XS 1&2
Stephanie: That it would. Much agreed.
Jordan: So, if enough time and effort were put into it, could the same be done to any game?
Stephanie: I think so.
Thomas: It would take a lot of innovation and a pact with demons of the lowest planes, Sensei...
Michael: I think we should wait and see if XSI +II is actually any good.
Michael: At the transference, that is.
Jordan: whether it's good or not, it's still something interesting to think about
Michael: I'm still skeptical.
Thomas: Well, it will actually make ME play it.
Jordan: no one's ever tried a stunt like this
Jordan: and I plan on checking it out
Thomas: I won't have to hear Shion's voice, so I'm all for that.
Stephanie: I'm thinking, its going to make it to the list of games to buy when I get a DS.
Thomas: Kingdom Hearts: CoM was pretty much the same thing, Sensei...
Thomas: ...just a different story with familiar themes.
Stephanie: CoM is the space between KH and KH2.
Jordan: but that had card battling, right?
Thomas: But a 2D representation of what had already been established as 3D
Jordan: But that IS a good point
Jordan: I had forgotten about CoM
Thomas: In application, yes, it has cards, but for all intents and purposes, the actions are commands are pretty much input in the same way.
Stephanie: Hehe, I didn't play much of it. Just enough to get a taste.
Thomas: You are simply limited by the number of cards you have.
T.J.: It's on my list of things to play. After I play the original Kingdom Hearts.
Rebecca: CoM is meh.
Thomas: Loving it, to a point...but Maleficent is proving to be a...well...a not nice word.
Stephanie: Yeah.. Kingdom Hearts was good, but CoM didn't make me WANT to play it through.
Rebecca: a concept like that could be fun on DS, though...
T.J.: So! Perhaps a DS port of what's complete on Earthbound 64 would be the answer to all our questions. ^^
Thomas: A traditional (can you believe I can use that word for KH?) style of control for KH in a DS game = heaven.
Stephanie: There ya go, Nerdboy! ^_^
Jordan: Does anyone have any parting thoughts on porting games to the handhelds in 2D sprite form?
Stephanie: If you can't do it right, don't do it at all?
T.J.: I like that train of thought.
Thomas: Hmmm... actually, I have to abstain. I want to see how XS1&2 works out before opening my mouth.