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[22:05] <Darien> <Speaker> I now call this house to order. I call the honourable prime minister Darien to give the first constructive speech of the round, not to exceed 7 minutes.
[22:06] <Darien> Thank you Mr. Speaker, my opponents for what promises to be a fun round.
[22:06] <Darien> I'd like to thank our August House (Scar) for watching the debate this evening.
[22:06] <Darien> And with that said, I'll get started.
[22:07] <Darien> The resolution before the house today is "Sex on Television can't hurt unless you fall off." This is a double-entendre type of joke, as it can be taken two ways.
[22:07] <Darien> In one way it's saying, "Sex on television is seen in a bad way" and it's also making light of the situation.
[22:07] <Darien> In the other way it's making a bad joke about sex.
[22:08] <Darien> Today we're talking about video game ratings, and how they affect games. Violence and sex in games is seen as a bad thing as well.
[22:08] <Darien> Today we will be talking about why ratings should not exist for video games. And I have 3 points that I would like to present to the house as to why not.
[22:08] <Darien> My first point is one that I believe is of utmost important. That is the consistency of the ratings.
[22:09] <Darien> I believe that you have all heard that Final Fantasy 8 was giving a rating of Teen, as was 7. However, 7 was given ratings for language, but not sexual content, whereas 8 was.
[22:10] <Darien> was cloud dressing up in a dress not sexual content? Was Tifa and Aeris being hit on not sexual content? Was a date between cloud and barret not sexual content?
[22:10] <Darien> 7 wasn't given a rating for violence. 8 was.
[22:10] <Darien> Now is Aeris being stabbed through the back by a sword non-violent?
[22:10] <Darien> The point is that the consistency in these ratings is non-existant. And therefore shows that it is not working as was intended.
[22:10] <Darien> My second point is one of comparison to movies.
[22:11] <Darien> In movies, do ratings work?
[22:11] <Darien> I know that when I was 12, I could get into PG-13 movies.
[22:11] <Darien> But that is tame by comparison.
[22:11] <Darien> When I was 14 and 15, I could get into R movies.
[22:11] <Darien> When I was 14 and 15, I could rent animé from the video store, and that's rated NC-17.
[22:11] <Darien> It's obvious that those ratings do not actually get enforced.
[22:11] <Darien> So why should they be created for games when they already fail for rentals and sales?
[22:12] <Darien> My third and final point is that games are interactive.
[22:12] <Darien> The fact that they are interactive shouldn't really cross ones mind at first glance, but are an inherent problem in a game.
[22:12] <Darien> A game like Mortal Kombat, which has a secret code that unlocks blood and whatnot. What do you do with it?
[22:12] <Darien> Do you give it an M rating because a secret unlocks tons of blood?
[22:13] <Darien> Or do you give it a T rating because without the code that is what it should be rated?
[22:13] <Darien> In RPGs, what if you take a different path? Or don't go get a secret character which happens to have huge sexual trauma in their past?
[22:13] <Darien> What rating do you give the game then?
[22:13] <Darien> Interactivity allows for different scenarios, different plots, and different outcomes.
[22:13] <Darien> Ratings cannot manage that interactivity.
[22:14] <Darien> Movies and television shows will always be the same.
[22:14] <Darien> You will know everything that goes on in them before they've even been shown.
[22:14] <Darien> Even if the ratings COULD deal with the interactivity, ratings don't work for games.
[22:14] <Darien> So I ask you Mr. Speaker, why SHOULD we have ratings?
[22:15] <Darien> (ok, I went about 15 seconds past 7 minutes, that is fair, you get 30 seconds grace period)
[22:15] <Speaker> Thank you Prime Minister for your remarks. I now call the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. Boo, to give a constructive speech not to exceed 8 minutes.
[22:15] <The-Great-El-Boo> Goodeveing all
[22:16] <The-Great-El-Boo> My fellow college Mr.Darein conclueded his speech by saying Why should we have ratings
[22:17] <The-Great-El-Boo> Well I have three points which i shall convey to you and then procceed to attack Mr.PM aguments
[22:17] <The-Great-El-Boo> Let me move on to my first point
[22:17] <The-Great-El-Boo> The Control Issue
[22:18] <The-Great-El-Boo> One thing we have to worry about with ratings is kids and parents who choose not to pay attention to them
[22:18] <The-Great-El-Boo> <thnaks>
[22:19] <The-Great-El-Boo> Now if the parent and govement choose not to help the future generation we are doomed to faluire
[22:19] <The-Great-El-Boo> If the children are allowed to see things which is not ment to be seen by them then they have already started on the path to corruption
[22:20] <The-Great-El-Boo> No my second point is the moral issue
[22:20] <The-Great-El-Boo> Any loving family wouldnt want their child to watch a porn video at the age of 13
[22:21] <The-Great-El-Boo> And if we dont rate these things acconding a huge moral delema will arise
[22:22] <The-Great-El-Boo> And my final point is
[22:22] <The-Great-El-Boo> The effects of non-restriced world on the childrens mind
[22:23] <The-Great-El-Boo> If we allowed that to occcur we would have more of a problem with crime, drugs, sex and other implied themes
[22:23] <The-Great-El-Boo> Now allow me to attack Mr.PM points
[22:24] <The-Great-El-Boo> 1st- consitensity
[22:24] <The-Great-El-Boo> The fact that ratings have to adapt and must eventualy adapt
[22:24] <The-Great-El-Boo> 2nd- Working of raitings
[22:25] <The-Great-El-Boo> That with stricter controls this would work, but is not enforreced enough
[22:25] <The-Great-El-Boo> and finally
[22:25] <The-Great-El-Boo> interacctivity
[22:25] <The-Great-El-Boo> the fact that a game must be judged to the entirity
[22:25] <The-Great-El-Boo> and not just ion certain parts
[22:25] <The-Great-El-Boo> And now I thank you for the time you have allowed me
[22:26] <The-Great-El-Boo> Good eveing
[22:26] <Speaker> I now call the member of government, Darien, to give a constructive speech not to exceed 8 minutes
[22:26] <Darien> Thank you again Mr. Speaker.
[22:26] <Darien> Now I have 2 independent points of analysis I'd like to bring in.
[22:27] <Darien> First of all, ratings give games a bad image.
[22:27] <Darien> They're putting them on par with movies, and restricting their growth.
[22:27] <Darien> For instance, if ratings are imposed, suddenly there are moral dilemmas for the companies producing them.
[22:28] <Darien> In Japan, there are no ratings. Therefore games that can be sold there with no moral stipulations may have trouble here, because they get assigned a mature rating, which MAY prevent their sale.
[22:28] <Darien> That would give games a worse image here, and would prevent their growth, as they would be seen as these mature playthings to parents who didn't want to really examine what the games were like.
[22:28] <Darien> This leads to my second point, which is censorship.
[22:29] <Darien> Those companies that have these games in Japan may feel the need, as they did in the days of Nintendo, to censor their games.
[22:29] <Darien> Because they need to keep sales figures high, they may remove questionable content, or maybe even not send the game over as it would require too much change.
[22:29] <Darien> That is too much of a risk for those companies, and censorship would be absolutely destroyed.
[22:30] <Darien> the US bases it's government on Freedom of Speech, Press, and Religion.
[22:30] <Darien> I ask you, if games are being censored indirectly, is that any better than them being directly censored?
[22:30] <The-Great-El-Boo> Point of Order
[22:30] <Darien> Yes Mr. Boo?
[22:31] <The-Great-El-Boo> Eailer in your speech you said that that the censorship is too much or riosk for compaines, could they attewmp to take nesscisay mesure to prevent inapporpiate things in the game
[22:32] <Darien> Why would they? Their primary market is Japan, although that is changing.
[22:32] <Darien> Look at some of the greatest pieces of literature in the past 10 years.
[22:32] <Darien> For instance, Snow Falling on Cedars won a pulitzer prize, and has become a popular movie.
[22:32] <Darien> That book contains graphic sexual scenes.
[22:32] <Darien> Should that have been edited out?
[22:32] <Darien> No, but censorship may cause it to be in the transition.
[22:33] <Darien> So censorship will lead to things not being brought here, which goes against the very nature of our country, and can prevent many great tiles from arriving here.
[22:33] <Darien> To address the Leader of the Opposition's points:
[22:33] <Darien> All three are more or less the same, he is saying that without the ratings, without all of this, the children will suddenly become corrupt and terrible.
[22:34] <Darien> Are you trying to tell me that our children now ARE corrupt and terrible Mr. Boo?
[22:34] <Darien> Do you actually believe that we are all degenerate criminals?
[22:34] <Darien> I ask you this because most of us grew up on games without ratings.
[22:34] <Darien> To support the PM's points:
[22:34] <Darien> The non-consitency of ratings is a problem. You say that it will adapt, but I ask you how it will adapt.
[22:35] <Darien> You just say that we should let it be, without giving a way in which the rating system will adapt.
[22:35] <Darien> There is so much opposition to games with questionable content, that the ratings will not adapt to give these games fair ratings in the ways that movies do, but the negative image will instead give these games unfair ratings set to prevent anything but Mario 402 from coming out in the next 20 years.
[22:35] <Darien> Is that what we want?
[22:36] <Darien> ratings don't work for movies, and you never truly address this point. You say that we don't want kids watching porn, and ratings are the way to do it.
[22:36] <Darien> But the fact is that 14-15 year olds ARE getting R movies, and they ARE getting anime (considered NC-17).
[22:36] <Darien> And until you can provide an answer against that, I can't really respond.
[22:36] <The-Great-El-Boo> Point of Order
[22:36] <Darien> (my last minute)
[22:37] <The-Great-El-Boo> (sorry)
[22:37] <Darien> Finally, games are interactive, and you say that we should look at the WHOLE game.
[22:37] <Darien> Well the fact is that we can't look at the WHOLE game without possibly destroying a harmless rating.
[22:37] <Darien> For instance, Disney movies. Each one has a tiny little bit of sexual innuendo.
[22:37] <Darien> PG-13 at least.
[22:37] <Darien> Do you know what a PG-13 rating on these movies would do to the sales?
[22:37] <Darien> It would KILL them.
[22:37] <Darien> But you propose the same thing be done to games.
[22:37] <Darien> Thank you.
[22:38] <Speaker> I now call the member of the opposition, Mr. TSG to give a speech not to exceed 8 minutes.
[22:38] <TSG> Thank you. I have no new points to add, but I would like to go through the previous points and add my own comments and rebuttals to them.
[22:39] <TSG> Firstly, the Prime Minister's mention of consistency between ratings. His example was on the games FF7 and FF8, and he specifically mentioned a number of points.
[22:40] <TSG> Firstly, let me address the 'sexual content' of FF7. Did the Cloud-in-a-dress sprite look anywhere near human? I say look because games are all a matter of visual perception, and FF7's normal graphics were of SD figures.
[22:40] <TSG> FF8's figures, on the other hand, look far more human and thus cause more of an impact when we see them.
[22:40] <Darien> point of order
[22:40] <TSG> Yes, Darien
[22:40] <TSG> ?
[22:40] <Darien> Does hentai look anything like human, especially when it involves tentacles? Should that receive a lower rating than X even though it's obviously porn?
[22:41] <TSG> Hentai is human form in compromising situations. Somewhere, in hentai, there will be something at least vaguely human - at least in the vast majority.
[22:42] <Darien> point of order
[22:42] <TSG> Yes?
[22:42] <Darien> So you're saying Cloud doesn't look at all vaguely human?
[22:43] <TSG> Cloud looks _vaguely_ human in SD form, but not to a great degree - real people don't have huge heads, real people don't have hands and feet a foot square. My point is that Cloud looks human enough that he registers in our brain as human, but not as human as, say, Squall throughout the game.
[22:44] <TSG> You also mentioned movies - that kids can end up getting R rated movies as simply as 14 or 15 rated.
[22:45] <TSG> My reply to that is that a movie contains known people - actors that we see every day on movies, on TV, in interviews. They're people that we know are real and that are just doing that - just acting.
[22:45] <TSG> Characters in games, however, have been created for that game alone and none other. They're unique to that, so they're new, we connect them more to the game.
[22:45] <TSG> Interactivity. You say that basing a rating will cause the rating to go down in every case.
[22:47] <TSG> To find everything in a game requires the intelligence to find it and the ability to find it all.
[22:47] <TSG> Since most games are designed so that the player can find everything in it somehow, I don't see this as a problem - the rating becomes not only a guide to age but also a guide to the rough target age on the game. It becomes beneficial.
[22:49] <TSG> You contend that the leader of the opposition implies all children / teenagers are corrupt and terrible. That may, to esome extent, be true. There are more child killings now, more under-age crime. It increases everyday. One incident in England was where a 12year old walked into a school and opened fire with a pistol. This does happen and has happened and will happen again.
[22:49] <TSG> The image of games is an important point, and may throw up a moral dilemma, but some companies exist to make 18 games. The makers of Carmageddon loved the fact that they caused controversy and an 18 certificate. That was their target audience, that's what they got.
[22:49] <TSG> Finally, the question of censorship.
[22:50] <TSG> Again, allow me to use the example of Carmageddon, which underwent direct censorship when first released to change the pedestrians into zombies with green blood.
[22:50] <TSG> This large cosmetic change was simply that - a cosmetic change, as most censorship is. The gameplay and the fun factor were not decreased in the slightest.
[22:50] <TSG> All censorship is, at heart, cosmetic.
[22:51] <TSG> Thank you for letting me make my points.
[22:51] <Speaker> Ok, I'd like to call the leader of the opposition to make the first rebuttal of the round not to exceed 4 minutes. Please remember that while new examples are welcome, new points are not.
[22:51] <The-Great-El-Boo> Thank you agian Mr.Speaker and all honourable memebers of the Parliment.
[22:52] <The-Great-El-Boo> I would first like to refree to the point of the rating system
[22:53] <The-Great-El-Boo> Mr.PM said thinks that I believe us all to be maniacs because we had no rating system years ago when we were playing games
[22:54] <The-Great-El-Boo> My response to that is, that a few years ago games were not lidden with sexual imagrary, like Parasite Eve, which shows a nude woman, or Extreme Violence, such as Quake III, where you earns Frags by killing other opponettes
[22:55] <The-Great-El-Boo> When I was first starting videogames I played Super Mario and Dragon Warrior,
[22:55] <The-Great-El-Boo> In a time in which the world was not full of the corruptness it is now
[22:55] <The-Great-El-Boo> Can we not turn on the TV with hearing about a car crash, a shooting, a drug overdose, a murder, ect
[22:56] <The-Great-El-Boo> Maybe, if it is the informecial channel
[22:57] <The-Great-El-Boo> But the fact of the matter is the world has increased in hate, anger, violence, and other quialites which plague this world
[22:57] <The-Great-El-Boo> And unless something is done to stop this plauge
[22:57] <The-Great-El-Boo> There will be nothing left to save, Thank you
[22:59] <Speaker> Thank you Leader of the Opposition. I would now like to call the prime minister to give the final speech of the round, not to exceed 5 minutes, New examples are hunky dory, but give me new points, and you die.
[22:59] <Darien> Ok, thank you Mr. Speaker, I have a lot to say, so here it goes.
[23:00] <Darien> First to counter some of the MO's points:
[23:00] <Darien> First he says that the inconsistency is caused in respect to vague likeness to humans.
[23:00] <Darien> He concedes that Cloud looks like a human, but says that Hentai shouldn't be lowered in rating because they hold a vague likeness to humans.
[23:01] <Darien> He is arguing for the same case in two different ways. It's obvious that can't work.
[23:01] <Darien> Secondly, he talks about violence in society being greater.
[23:01] <Darien> The media exaggerates first of all, and they thrive on violence because more people watch it. It's exciting.
[23:01] <Darien> The actual figures however show that the % of school violence hasn't increased, rather just the number, as the population has increased.
[23:01] <Darien> Finally, he says that some companies thrive on the 18+ market. Granted, but not all do, and we can't hinder those that don't.
[23:02] <Darien> The moral Leader of the Opposition would NEVER stand for only companies that cater to the risqué market.
[23:02] <TSG> Point of Order
[23:02] <Darien> On to my 3 points of clarification
[23:02] <Darien> (not in rebuttals, not allowed)
[23:02] <TSG> (Ack, sorry.)
[23:02] <Darien> First of all, the opponents problem.
[23:02] <Darien> They sit here, and they try to tell you Mr. Speaker, that ratings are good and necessary.
[23:02] <Darien> What they don't do, is give you a real reason why.
[23:03] <Darien> They say it's for morality, for ethics, and for all this stuff, but they don't tell you why.
[23:03] <Darien> They tell us that our kids are killing each other, and we're at an all time low, and that 14-15 year olds shouldn't watch porn.
[23:03] <Darien> And yet they can't connect this to how ratings on video games will help.
[23:03] <Darien> However, I do give you reasons they shouldn't. I have two of them which are my final two points of clarification.
[23:03] <Darien> First of all, this country is based on Freedom.
[23:04] <Darien> And we are taking away that freedom through censorship, and through bad reputations for games, and non-consistent ratings.
[23:04] <Darien> The country isn't based on this sort of a bias, so why should we continue it?
[23:04] <Darien> Secondly, ratings are ineffective.
[23:04] <Darien> I've shown you how they don't work for movies.
[23:04] <Darien> I've shown you how interactivity causes major problems with the rating system.
[23:05] <Darien> I've shown you that there is no way that these ratings will help us prevent children from seeing the stuff.
[23:05] <Darien> And I've shown you how the ratings hinder the companies and the industry.
[23:05] <Darien> The industry hurts, the children don't get any better, and they haven't gotten any worse, despite what the media and my opponents are trying to tell you today.
[23:05] <Darien> For all these reasons, we as the government are proud to propose.
[23:05] <Darien> Thank you.
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