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Googleshng - October 5 '02- 2:00 Eastern Standard Time
Well, the secret's out. Over the weekend, I'm placed inside a special
cryogenic pod to ensure my eternal... uh... something. Anyway though, this weekend between this unfortunate
gap between Chesh's return and his fill-in's departure, and today's guest host having some technical
difficulties, I was put in storage too early, and tonight I was thawed out and put on the emergency generator
to fix things.
Alan: You know, both days I've done Q+A now, I've recieved absolutely no copies of
klez for that day. Considering I usually get upwards of ten, it's either an
omen, or just highly ironic. So, I'm back again, your friendly local
not-so-neighbourhood Englishman, to answer a variety of your questions. And
probably get mocked a lot. But that's pretty much par for the course for me.
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Fanfics the first!
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Fanfiction, like all things, tends to have more idiots involved in
writing
then sensible people. That's why I like it, terrible fanfiction makes
me
laugh in it's splendid crappiness. It's so pathetically written and
the
author thinks he/she is just SOOO special because they can't come up
with
their own ideas. Ha!
Time for some chuckles, think I'll head to fanfiction.net
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Alan:
In defence of Fanfic.net, while there are an incredible number of really
bad, N'Sync-ficcing writers on there, there are also a lot of hidden gems
tucked away there. It's nice to be wandering through the fics there then
suddenly find one good enough that you realise later you've just read
through hundreds of K of text and completely missed everything else you
planned to do that evening.
The trouble is moderating the content, and fanfic.net's way too large to
vote on every fic. Meanwhile, public voting could be possible, but way too
prone to abuse by disgruntled authors.
Googleshng:
Having nothing really to say here, I was planning to parade more old Scary Pics around, but it seems my
server is currently down. DOH!
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KHC
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Hey Googleshnger and TSG,
Wow.
After seeing the commercial for Kingdom Hearts and listening to
the soundtrack, I'm hooked. And I'm also hooked on this "Chobits"
series which include a large number of references to porn and sex.
Sooo....
I have two very personal questions for you two.
1) Do you guys like Kingdom Hearts?
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Alan:
I'd been looking forward to it for ages, and the importers I use were
getting called every day to find out if it were in or not at one point. I
have to say that despite some flaws, including the camerawork and the fact
that a Square game took me less than thirty hours to complete, I'm not
disappointed at all. The mixing of the two universes was really great:- the
Square characters look like Square characters, and the Disney characters
look like Disney characters, but they're working together!
Though I would just like to know why Sora needs such extremely large shoes.
Googleshng:
I have a distinct lack of both Kingdom Hearts and money at the moment, but I am innately drawn to insanity,
so the former will most likely be remedied before the latter.
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2) Do you guys like Chobits?
Thanks, your replies will truly enlighten my day and make me
invariably happy.
Laufingboy.
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Alan:
I've never seen Chobits, so I wouldn't know. But everything I've heard about
it is good.
Googleshng:
My knowledge of Chobits is limited to 3 words: "Hentai by CLAMP." As I understand the focus of hentai
to be illustrations of anatomy apart from eyes and hair, this concept doesn't seem right.
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WA
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Ever play Wild Arms? It's just that I've noticed something a
little
later in the game. I'm not sure at which point it happens, but Rudy
becomes a
god. He has so many guns that his damage overwhelms everyone else. He
also
has the best health and defense. In one turn Rudy can do 9999 damage
with a
gun, Jack, at a level 42 with his best guardian does around 2000-3000
with
his best attack (not counting Force). So, my point is that Rudy is the
power
house, Cecilia is the healer,...and Jack is just there. Is this just
my game
or what?
-AlbinoMonkeyKing
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Alan:
I guess that's just your game: in mine, Jack was the strength twink, doing a
truly incredible amount of damage a turn, while Rudy ended up never taking
any serious damage thanks to a ridiculously high defence.
Googleshng:
You're pretty much both right, although Albino here is comparing a very resticted and costly special attack
with the attack command (I think) and that isn't quite fair. In a single round late in the game, Rudy
tends to do more damage than Jack if you use something like Twin Orbs and get lucky, but when you're
just attacking Jack is stronger, faster, and dagnabit he has Hanpan!
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Fanfics the second!
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I happen to be a rather prolific author of fan fictions. I
write pure The Legend of Zelda fan fictions, and extensive crossovers,
and I'd just like to know what make fan fictions so darn
abominable.
Let's use your Legend of Zelda reference for the moment. I am a great
fan of that series. I am a fan of the characters, the worlds, and the
overall vision behind it. Then there's you, and other fan-fiction
writers like you, who feel the need to change this world, by adding
elements of your own. But then, it's not The Legend of Zelda anymore,
it's your little version of it. You could write your own fiction,
with your own characters, but instead, you take Link and Zelda and the
rest, and you make them something they're not.
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Alan:
That's one of the things about fanfiction. No author should - I'd say is,
but many don't - say that their fanfiction is the be-all and end-all for a
particular fandom. When it comes down to it, a piece of fanfiction is one
person's interpretation of a world and the characters in it. It's not
necessarily what the character is actually like - purposefully OOC
fanfiction exists, on a what-if experimental basis. Often it's just as good
as the game, or better.
Googleshng:
Dagnabit. Both sides are covered here, so I'll just have to debate a related topic with myself!
Goog: If the writeres of fanfics are able to write decent stories, why don't they just create
their own characters instead of using other people's?
LeShng: Ah, but there is merit in the use of others' characters! Would Irresponisble Captain Tylor
be as amusing if it did not contain Jason?
Goog: Touché my arbitrarily French adversary!
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First off, every single day we twist around somebody
else's story to suit our own needs. How many times have you heard a
particularly interesting story on the news, or a tidbit of gossip you
wish to tell a friend? Do you use the newscaster's exact words? No.
You tell it in your own way, perhaps giving more emphasis to one
particular area of the story and maybe leaving out bits altogether
that you feel are unimportant. This is twisting around the story, and
yet do we ever hear people complaining how that makes them sick?
Certainly not.
This is a flawed argument. I hear a story on the news, so I tell a
friend about it, but I tell it my way, this is true, but I'm not
changing the story, I'm telling what I remember. Some things stick
better than others, and some things mean more to me than others, but
the story is still the same.
If you think fan fictions are wrong and shouldn't exist,
you might as well go the next step and say straight out that fan art
shouldn't be done either, as it is changing the style and the way the
original artists had intended for the characters to be portrayed. I
don't think very many fan artists, such as myself, would be too happy
to hear this. As a matter of fact, some of the most beautiful works of
art I have ever seen have been fan art. And I have seen a lot of
art.
Why would I want to do that? Fan-art and fan-fiction are two very
different things. You may be drawing the character differently, but
it's still the same character. Draw a picture of Zelda, and she's
still Zelda. Write new words for Zelda to say, and she's what you've
made her.
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Alan:
Personally, I don't agree. To me (remember, this whole argument has a big
'In My Opinion' sign over it anyways) fanart is just the same situation as
fanfiction; you're taking an established character, and you're rewriting
them. Or, more accurately, you're writing your own interpretation of them.
Fanart has the same rules: you're taking an established appearance and
visual style, and putting your own interpretation and visual style into the
mix, with better or worse results.
Googleshng:
I agree on the equating fan fiction to gossip bit. If you flesh that anaology out it'd be like if you
heard on the news that Microsoft was being sued being a monopoly, and then started telling people a story
about how before becoming a billionare, Bill Gates used to run around beating orphans to death with a
shovel.
However, the only difference between fan fiction and fan art is that one is text and the other is images.
And you know, this whole 4 way discussion thing is pretty confusing...
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By writing fan fictions, the authors keep the story alive
for not only their readers but themselves. It helps them grow closer
to the characters and even make friends with them. Without fan
fictions, some games would lapse into the two-dimensional waste of
randomly slaying monsters, just because they happen to be there. There
would be no point to that or any game.
So you're saying that you improve these games by coopting the
characters for your own fiction? I'm sorry, I just don't see it that
way. I love the games the way they are. I really don't need
fan-fiction to expand on them.
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Alan:
That's fair enough, but that's your opinion, and you aren't everyone. Just
because you don't need to expand on a game doesn't mean everyone doesn't.
Other people like to try to think up what happens next, or like to try to
answer the unanswered questions, or just like to play around a bit in the
world. Along the way, maybe some characters get some more personality, or
change a little. People change anyhow.
Googleshng:
Now here I have to take the pro-fanfic side because life would be so much less amusing if I couldn't sit
around with people pondering how Dr. Wily plans to take over the world by putting robots in empty rooms
at the ends of theme levels which were evidently already sitting around.
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Unlike a lot of people, there are some of us that play
RPGs because we like the plot and characters, rather than thinking,
"Ooh! I get to shoot people with a tank! I'll go buy it now!" Fan
fictions are a way to more fully immerse ourselves in the game, and to
bridge the long gap between releases.
I play almost all games for the story. In fact, every hobby I have is
done for the story. Anime, manga/comics, gaming, reading, all of it
for the story. Just because I don't like it when people take those
stories that I hold dear and use them for their own purposes, that
does not mean that I don't like the original stories, in fact I would
say it's the other way around.
Yes, we may be using other peoples' characters. Everyone
is allowed to place their own interpretation on events and people's
behaviors. Psychiatrists do it all the time. There may be
interpretations on characters that a person does not agree with. This
does not necessarily make them wrong. They are just
different.
There is a difference between interpretation and manipulation.
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Alan:
And not all fanfiction is manipulation. In fact, it's often easy to tell a
bad fanfic by the way it feels all stilted, and people randomly do things
for no reason. That's manipulation. But believeable reasoning sequences
behind a characters actions and a bit of extrapolation from the choices and
actions of that character within the game can make for an enjoyable
experience.
Googleshng:
I believe I'd said this bit before, but if you play games for the sole sake of story, you need to seriously
adjust your hobbies. I'm all for having a good plot, but if that's all you're looking for, you're a lot
better off just reading books.
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For brevity's sake, I will end here. I just wanted to make
a point that you shouldn't condemn fan fictions as being abominable.
Perhaps you have never experienced the joy of being an author or the
awe after reading a singularly beautiful story, written by a fan
fiction writer. If so, then perhaps you should start reading or
writing. You may find yourself with a true passion for whichever one
you choose.
I've actually read many fan-fictions, and I actually liked a few, but
these were ones that took place in the same world as is inhabited by
the original characters, but use original characters, and, for the
most part, original settings. I really don't have a problem with
people writing stories based on previous works. Just leave the
characters alone. They're not yours.
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Alan:
Ultimately, whether someone likes fanfiction or not is just a matter of
opinion, same as whether a person likes anything. Some people don't like it,
and that's fair enough. Some people do like it, and that should be fair
enough as well. Bottom line, if you don't like it, don't click on my section
link. But don't begrudge others the chance to.
Googleshng:
My final word on the subject is this. I don't see why the existance of a given work of fan fiction should
bother anyone. Fan fics exist on a lower tier of reality than their source material, and therefore can
be easily dismissed as having no connection whatsoever to the book/game/show/movie you like. The only
time it should ever upset you when a terrible story is set in the same world as something you like is
when it has official permission to do so. For example, Highlander 2. That's when you have to denounce
it as not being canon in your own little world and people looking at you. Of course, with that particular
example even the creators went on to cover their ears and shout "Lala! It didn't really happen!" so let's
all pretend I used something else. Like, say, Alien 3.
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Fanfics the third!
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Just little rebuttle to the fan fiction debate.
I agree with the original statement. Fan fics just bother me.
Only the
original author can really understand the characters personality on a
level
in which they can actually say what the character would do/might do/is
doing
right now.
As far as the argument that they fan uses his/her own stories
to grow
closer the character... if you want a character to be close too, write
your
own story. Create your own character.
And as far as the news story theory... thats mass media, and
not
really comparable to writing a fan fiction. Using a metaphor is a
really easy
way to make an argument for anything, even if there is no basis
whatsoever.
Wil "Princess" Swirls
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Alan:
I pretty much said it all in the previous post: when it comes down to it, an
opinion is a personal thing, and there's always gonna be some people who
like something, some people who dislike something. I just happen to like it
enough to maintain a section on it. Plus, I get lackeys to whip.
Googleshng:
Many characters' actions actually come about based on input by a good half-dozen sources actually, which
can throw a wrench in that "only the author" bit.
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